中尼铁路和南亚交流第33期
China-Nepal Railway and South Asia Exchange No.33
本期主持人 孙勇 四川师范大学华西边疆研究所教授
Host of this issue Sun Yong Professor of West China Frontier Research Institute, Sichuan Normal University
四人谈：中国机构改革的取向与尼泊尔的期望（二）
Four People Talk: The Orientation of China's Institutional Reform and Nepal's Expectations (Ⅱ)
Balmukunda Regmi, Professor Bimala Dahal, Professor
雷格米教授 达哈拉教授
尼泊尔特里普文大学、尼中社会研究学会
Tripuven University, Nepal, Nepal-China Society for Social Studies
杨荣涛副教授 包金运博士
四川师范大学 西藏自治区行政学院
Associate Professor Yang Rongtao Dr. Bao Jinyun
Sichuan Normal University Xizang Autonomous Region School of Administration
主持人：2023年中国的“两会”内容丰富。3月7日，国务委员兼国务院秘书长肖捷作了关于国务院机构改革方案的说明，除国务院办公厅外，国务院设置组成部门仍为26个。组建国家数据局，是不少人关注的一个亮点。
Host: China's "two sessions" in 2023 are rich in content. On March 7, Xiao Jie, State Councilor and Secretary-General of The State Council, made an explanation on The State Council's institutional reform plan. In addition to The General Office of the State Council, The State Council still has 26 ministries and commissions. The establishment of a national data Bureau is a highlight of many people's attention.
雷格米：我们注意到了中国的这次改革，涉及到了数字经济、数字社会规划和建设等。说将有助于打破“数据孤岛”，充分实现数据要素流动的安全畅通。这会不会对数据，网站，IP知识权，边界安全的强调，从而导致对睦邻友好关系的忽视呢？
Regmi: We have noticed this reform in China, which involves the planning and construction of digital economy and digital society. It will help to break the "data island" and fully realize the safe and smooth flow of data elements. Will the emphasis on data, websites, IP rights, border security lead to the neglect of good neighbourliness?
包金运：数字技术的发展是世界性的进步，中国在这次改革之中拟组建国家数据局，有针对性地加强对数据的管理、开发、利用。主要还是从推动国内的数字经济的。近年来中国决策层对数据的重视程度不断提升，已将其明确为五大生产要素之一，以“促进数据合规高效流通使用、赋能实体经济”作为主线。助于打破“数据孤岛”，充分实现数据要素流动的安全畅通。
Bao Jinyun: The development of digital technology is a worldwide progress. In this reform, China plans to establish a National Data Bureau to strengthen the management, development and utilization of data. Mainly from promoting the domestic digital economy. In recent years, Chinese decision-makers have been attaching increasing importance to data, which has been identified as one of the five factors of production, and taking "promoting the compliance and efficient circulation and use of data and empowering the real economy" as the main line.Help to break the "data island", fully realize the safe and smooth flow of data elements.
杨荣涛：对数据，网站，IP知识权，边界安全的强调，应该是世界各国的普遍做法，只不过有的国家更加严格一些。中国并不是这次改革才对这些问题予以强调的，早些年就有政府的文件要求。这几年在受到外来影响的情况下，更加注重这些问题。但我国的数字技术发展最主要的还是用于发展，因此不会影响到睦邻友好关系。
Yang Rongtao: The emphasis on data, websites, IP rights and border security should be a common practice in the world, but some countries are stricter. China is not the latest reform to emphasize these issues, there are government document requirements in the early years. In recent years, in the face of external influences, greater attention has been paid to these issues. However, the country's digital technological development is primarily for development and will not affect good-neighbourly relations.
包金运：我补充一点，孙勇教授早几年就写过两篇关于互联网发展和安全的论文，认为加强互联网安全是各国尤其是各个大国都在做的事情，这有必然性。
Bao Jinyun: I would like to add that Professor Sun Yong wrote two papers on the development and security of the Internet a few years ago. He believes that it is inevitable for all countries, especially major countries, to strengthen Internet security.
主持人：注意，这次改动的还有，将国家乡村振兴局职责划入农业农村部，我想尼泊尔的学界朋友也是注意了的吧？
Host: Note that this time, the National Rural Revitalization Administration will be assigned to the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs. I think the academic friends in Nepal have also noticed this, right?
雷格米：是的，这也是我很关心的事情。尼泊尔的贫困问题比较严重，城市农村都有脱贫要求，农村地区的愿望更加强烈。
Regmi: Yes, that's something I care about too. Poverty is a serious problem in Nepal. There are demands for poverty alleviation in both urban and rural areas, and the desire is stronger in rural areas.
杨荣涛：中国这次的“两会”，例如3月9日就提出了优化职责后的农业农村部，要继续加大对脱贫地区和脱贫群众的帮扶力度，全国脱贫攻坚目标任务完成后的过渡期内，有关帮扶政策、财政支持、项目安排保持总体稳定。这是占中国大多数人民非常关心的事情，“两会”都有研究，有改革的方案。
Yang Rongtao: At the "Two sessions" of China, for example, on March 9, the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs, with its improved functions, was proposed to continue to increase assistance to areas and people lifted out of poverty. In the transitional period after the national poverty reduction targets and tasks are completed, relevant assistance policies, financial support and project arrangements will remain stable on the whole. This is a matter of great concern to the majority of the Chinese people, the "two sessions" have been studied, there are plans for reform.
达哈拉：这个消息令人鼓舞！我理解的中国的“两会”，是具有全国性的民众会议，民众在那里讨论国家大事，反应人民的心声。把农村的生计问题提出来，还要改革国家的职能机构，这是一个典范。
Dahal: That's encouraging news! The "two sessions" in China, as I understand it, are meetings of the people at the national level, where the people discuss state affairs and reflect the wishes of the people. It is a good example for underdeveloped countries to put rural livelihoods on the table and reform state institutions.
杨荣涛：中国的机构调整和变动，或者叫做改革，都是为了更好的发展，更加符合人民群众的愿望和要求。我国也会出现这样那样的问题，甚至有时候出错，但是只要把人民至上作为宗旨，这些改革就有了推动国家发展，增进民众福祉的含义。
Yang Rongtao: China's institutional adjustment and change, or reform, is for better development and better meeting the aspirations and demands of the people.In our country, there may be some problems and even mistakes, but as long as we put the people first, these reforms have the meaning of promoting national development and improving people's well-being.
雷格米：这是我最为向往的一种国家形态，用中国话来说，国泰民安。
Regmi: This is the kind of state I yearn for the most. To use a Chinese saying, the country is peaceful and the people are safe.
达哈拉：通过对中国“两会”的关注，国际社会渴望深入了解中国将如何以高质量发展促进全球共同发展、共同繁荣。那么，尼泊尔怎样才会从中国机构的改革中获得更多好处？
Dahal: With the attention paid to China's two sessions, the international community is eager to learn more about how China will promote global common development and prosperity through high-quality development. So how can Nepal benefit more from China's institutional reforms?
包金运：作为全球第二大消费市场和第一大货物贸易国，中国是世界经济大循环的关键枢纽。中国经济的加快回暖，将激活世界经济。中国商务部前不久宣布包括推动国内贸易展会全面恢复线下展、支持企业“走出去”等一系列政策，如果南亚国家能够开放，鼓励合作，尼泊尔得到的好处肯定会更多。
Bao Jinyun: As the world's second largest consumer market and largest trader of goods, China is a key hub of the global economic cycle. A faster recovery of the Chinese economy will invigorate the world economy. China's Ministry of Commerce recently announced a series of policies, including promoting the full resumption of offline exhibitions at domestic trade fairs and supporting enterprises to "go global". If South Asian countries can open up and encourage cooperation, Nepal will surely benefit more.
杨荣涛：不得不说的是，所谓“脱钩断链”搅动世界，出来了保护主义、单边主义的抬头，这在南亚也有苗头。中国始终以开放促合作、以合作谋发展，这个态度是不会变的。
Yang Rongtao: I have to say that the so-called "decoupling and chain breaking" has stirred the world, leading to the rise of protectionism and unilateralism. There are also signs of this in South Asia. China always pursues cooperation through opening-up and development through cooperation. This attitude will not change.
主持人：今年，是中国改革开放45周年，尼泊尔的学界当然也包括南亚各国各界朋友尽可能地想了解中国，懂得中国式现代化是怎样的一个概念。当然，通过两会这一“中国之窗”，进一步了解中国的改革开放，才能明白中国式现代化的世界意义及其对人类文明进步的启迪。
Host: This year marks the 45th anniversary of China's reform and opening-up. The academic community in Nepal, including friends from all walks of life in South Asia, can only understand the concept of Chinese-style modernization if they learn as much as possible about China. Of course, we should open the "window" of China, the Two sessions, to learn more about China's reform and opening up, so that we can understand the significance of Chinese modernization in the world and its inspiration for the progress of human civilization.
雷格米：主持人的这个提示很好，世界各国各界关注两会的意义，归根结底就在这里，中国式的现代化与世界的共同繁荣。
Regmi: That's a very good hint from the host. People from all over the world are interested in the significance of the two sessions. In the final analysis, it is here, Chinese modernization and common prosperity of the world.
杨荣涛：我赞成这样的认识或说法：中国式现代化造福中国，惠及世界。在中国式现代化道路上前进的中国，始终把自身发展置于人类发展的宽广坐标系中，始终把中国人民利益同各国人民共同利益结合在一起。
Yang Rongtao: I agree with those who say that Chinese modernization benefits both China and the world. Moving forward on the road of Chinese-style modernization, China has always placed its own development in the broad coordinate system of human development, and has always integrated the interests of the Chinese people with the common interests of people around the world.
包金运：毫无疑问，中国的机构改革，不仅使得国内的发展受益，也会使得周边国家受益。
Bao Jinyun: There is no doubt that China's institutional reform will not only benefit domestic development, but also benefit neighboring countries.
达哈拉：这些改革后，尼泊尔向中国的出口贸易，尼泊尔劳力在中国就业的可能性会增加还是降低？
Dahal: After these reforms, will Nepal's export trade to China increase or decrease the possibility of Nepalese labor working in China?
包金运：据环球印象发布的《尼泊尔投资环境及风险分析报告》数据显示，近30年来，中尼两国贸易规模总体呈上升趋势。随着尼泊尔灾后重建任务的完成，2018年国内政局的稳定以及尼泊尔积极融入中国“一带一路”倡议，2015年以后，中尼贸易额逐年上升，2019年达到12亿美元左右。总体来看，两国贸易结构、进出口产品构成虽然存在一定差异，但两国产品又存在较强的互补性，贸易潜力较大。这些改革后，加之全球疫情阴霾的消散，中尼进出口贸易趋势会更加向好。同时，随着贸易总量的不断增长以及口岸开放数量的增加，尼泊尔劳动力在中国获得就业的机会也会越来越多。
Bao Jinyun: According to the "Investment Environment and Risk Analysis Report of Nepal" released by Global Impression, trade between China and Nepal has been on the rise in the past 30 years. With the completion of Nepal's post-disaster reconstruction, the stability of the domestic political situation in 2018 and Nepal's active integration into China's Belt and Road Initiative, the trade volume between China and Nepal has increased year by year since 2015, reaching about $1.2 billion in 2019. In general, although there are some differences in the trade structure and composition of import and export products between the two countries, the products of the two countries are highly complementary and have great trade potential. After these reforms, coupled with the disappearance of the haze of the global epidemic, the import and export trade between China and Nepal will become more positive. At the same time, with the continuous growth of the total trade volume and the increase of the number of ports opened, the Nepalese labor force will have more and more opportunities to get employment in China.
杨荣涛：这次中国的“两会”议题很广，反映民意，注意改善民生，办好中国自己的事情。总的说来，中国还是一个发展中的国家，还需要中国各族人民团结奋斗。所以说，在改革中出台乡村振兴重点帮扶县和重点地区帮扶政策，组织开展东西部协作、对口支援、社会帮扶，还是我国今后要做的工作。
Yang Rongtao: China's "two sessions" will cover a wide range of topics. They will reflect public opinion and focus on improving people's livelihood and running China's own affairs well. All in all, China is still a developing country and needs the unity and hard work of the Chinese people of all ethnic groups. Therefore, in the course of reform, we need to introduce policies to help key counties and regions in rural revitalization, and organize cooperation between the eastern and western regions, as well as pairing assistance and social assistance.
雷格米：这个情况我虽然不是很清楚，但也是有所了解。我有一个愿望，恳请得到中国同行的帮助，在2023年或稍后到中国来，考察基层的扶贫、教育等情况。我觉得，到中国学习中国的脱贫经验，比去发达国家开会谈论反贫困的议题更加有用。
Regmi: I don't know much about the situation, but I understand it. I have a wish that I would like to enlist the help of my Chinese counterparts to come to China in 2023 or a little later to investigate poverty alleviation and education at the grassroots level. I think it would be more useful to learn from China's poverty alleviation experience than to go to meetings in developed countries to talk about anti-poverty issues.
主持人孙勇（结语）：我希望雷格米教授的愿望能够实现。时间总是短暂的，转眼间本次跨国的民间学术交流接近尾声了。感谢尼泊尔的雷格米教授、达哈拉教授，四川师范大学的杨荣涛副教授，西藏自治区政学院的包金运博士的热情参与，期待下次再见。
Host Sun Yong (closing remarks) : I hope Professor Regmi's wish will come true.Time is always short. In a blink of an eye, this cross-border non-governmental academic exchange is coming to an end.Thanks to Prof. Balmukunda Regmi and Prof. Bimala Dahal from Nepal, Associate Professor Yang Rongtao from Sichuan Normal University, and Dr. Bao Jinyun from Tibet Autonomous Region School of Administration for your enthusiastic participation. Look forward to seeing you next time.
图为2015年，首个“中尼友好希望小学”项目在尼泊尔签约。
本文为“中尼铁路和南亚交流”第33期《四人谈：中国机构改革的取向与尼泊尔的期望（二）》。本期与谈嘉宾是尼泊尔特里普文大学、尼中社会研究学会的雷格米教授、达哈拉教授、四川师范大学杨荣涛副教授、西藏自治区行政学院包金运博士；主持人为四川师范大学华西边疆研究所孙勇教授。特此推出以飨读者！
This article is the 32rd issue of "China-Nepal Railway and South Asia Exchange", "Four People Talk: The Orientation of China's Institutional Reform and Nepal's Expectations (Ⅱ)". The guests of this session are Professor Balmukunda Regmi and Professor Bimala Dahal of Nepal Tripuwen University, Nepal-China Society for Social Studies, Associate Professor Yang Rongtao of Sichuan Normal University, and Dr. Bao Jinyun of Xizang Autonomous Region School of Administration . The host is Professor Sun Yong of the West China Frontier Research Institute of Sichuan Normal University. It is hereby launched to entertain readers! （END）
（责任编辑：邹舒 审核：罗蒙山）
